1st Period - Things Fall Apart Discussion Board
Discussion Boars: Things Fall Apart
Please post your best level 2b or 3b question as a reply here. REMEMBER, you cannot repeat someone's question and you must respond (click reply) to a minimum of two questions posted here. The more you respond the more you will be rewarded. Remember to use the - I agree with ____, Disagree with_____, or the - to piggyback_____, and I agree somewhat with _____'s ______ but think maybe_________.
GOOD LUCK
Adan Velasquez
ReplyDelete2B. What inference can you make of the Umuofia tribe AFTER Okonkwos death?
3B. Would it have been better if Okonkwo had agreed with the white peoples beliefs?
I believe the tribe actually flourished under this new direction of religion that is Christianity. With the suicide of Okonkwo. Ceased was on of the last beings who opposed and despised the motives of Mr. Brown and his missionaries. Now I inference that the people of Umuofia will thrive with the beliefs on thy one, true god. Although their cultures and ancient traditions have been shattered by the Christians, they can begin a new, defining era. One where they can break their stereotypes, and create a new form of cultural heritage.
DeleteIf the mighty warrior Okonkwo, had submitted to the contemporary beliefs of " The white Man", there probably would've of been no violence and discrimination against the Ibo leaders. His weakness was blatant; a textbook man with so much pride. Okonkwo truly could of increased his history had he joined his tribe in encountering new waters. However, I do respect his decision; for he stood his beliefs and thus he took his life to show his commitment to his philosophy.
I disagree with Ryan because ever since the Christian's arrived there has been nothing but fighting among the clan itself. Before they came along everyone lived in harmony without questioning their religion. I think that Umuofia clan only had a few strong believers in their own religion. I think many f them just stayed followed their religion out of custom but never really felt attached to it. Once Okonkwo, one of the strongest leaders died they had no one to follow. They saw the Christians as powerful and wise and choose to give in and have someone to follow and make decisions for them. It is not a bad thing since it is like second nature for us to follow those who have more power than we do.
DeleteWhat was the first sign of weakness that Okwonkwo evoked before committing suicide?
ReplyDeleteThe first sign of weakness that Okonkwo evoked before committing suicide was after he had beheaded one of the missionaries. After beheading the missionary he simply just picked up his machete and cleaned it in the sand. Furthermore, this was the first sign of weakness because his clansmen did not chase the other 4 missionaries, which meant that his people wouldn't go to war with the missionaries, furthering Okonkwo's sadness.
DeleteI agree with Alejandro, I believe that Okonkwo didn't believe that the white missionaries had changed the entire clan until he saw their weakness. With the beheading of the missionary, he expected to prompt the rest of the clan to get pumped and send the missionaries to war. Earlier in the book, they talked about how they sent another village to war, but now he sees that Umuofia is too cowardly and woman-like to do anything. This was his first true sign of weakness in Okonkwo.
DeleteIn my opinion, I feel like Okwonkwo's weakness was seen ever since the unexpected death of Ikemefuna. Ikemefuna certainly had an impact on Okwonkwo. Evidently, Ikemefuna was treated and known as the child that Okwonkwo had been waiting for. A boy that was not only strong and healthy, but that also influenced his younger siblings. When the news that Ikemefuna was to be "taken home" reached Okwonkwo's family, there was a sudden and known vacancy. Achebe describes Ikemefuna as being "at a loss" while Nwoye expresses his sadness by bursting into tears. As Ikemefuna was killed, Okwonkwo is "dazed with fear" and is "afraid of being thought weak." This leads me to the idea that Okwonkwo's biggest weakness, was the thought of being weak. I believe this was the start of Okwonkwo's tragic destiny.
DeleteTo piggyback on the statement made by Joyceline,I believe that Okonkwo did in fact express his weakness when the unexpected decision made by the village elders arose earlier in the novel.Okonkwo,who was seen as a strict and ferocious member of Umuofia,was never thought to be the type of person to care for an outcast member .However,Okonkwo grew to care for Ikemefuna and when the decision came, Okonkwo was struck with hesitation as to why the child was to be killed. Through the hesitation that Okonkwo had, the reader was given a glimpse of what would be to come of Okonkwo's hesitation,and it gave one instance of many where Okonkwo shows his hindered weakness.
DeleteI also agree with Alejandro because killing is always a sign of weakness. I believe that Okonkwo did not have the strength to prevent himself from causing the white men any harm. His selfish acts of killing one of them is a very clear to me that he wasnt as strong as he claimed he was
DeleteLevel 3B: What is your opinion of how the clan reacted to the white men colonizing the clan? What should the Ibo people have done different to avoid further damage to their own culture and family?
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, the clan reacted a little bit too peacefully against the white men colonizing the clan. For example, it was okay for the white men to build a church, but after they had made a government they had gone too far. Furthermore, I think that the clan showed a sign of weakness, in which the missionaries abused. the Ibo people should have taken a stand and fight back after they had built a government and a prison because it wasn't right how they just wanted to take over without even knowing their culture.
DeleteI agree with Alejandro, I believe the Ibo people greatly under estimated the white missionaries. They merely kept him to laugh at his customs even after what they heard about what happened to Abame. The leaders even gave them land in the evil forest to build their churches. When the leaders saw that they survived the evil forest they essentially gave up on defeating them. With land to build a church, a jury system,a school, and even a prison and with all these complexes they were able to spread their culture more and more on the Ibo people. With all of this the missionaries started to gain more converts, until the entire clan's culture was wiped out. I believe the Ibo people should have attacked the white man when he first arrived and they may have still had prevented theirselves from being influenced by western culture .
DeleteI agree with both Alejandro and Alfredo. The Ibo clan really did underestimate the missionaries, and I think that is because the clan saw them as a joke. When the missionaries arrived, the clan didn’t think much about the white men even though they were warned by others when they heard about the falling of Abame. However, when they finally thought about driving the missionaries out it was too late. The clan was already falling apart due to many people converting to Christianity. If the clan really wanted to avoid damage to their culture, they should have driven out the missionaries as soon as they arrived.
DeleteI agree with Alejandro. When the missionaries first came, the Ibo people took them as a joke, laughed at them and didn’t think they would last there very long. Then clan even gave them land to build a church in their “evil forest” expecting them to be gone within less than a week . To prevent further disputes I think the clan should’ve put their foot down and protected their customs and traditions from being stripped from them by the new religion of the white men
DeleteIn my opinion, i believe that the ibo clan should have rejected the white men. The white men went to the village trying to change there beliefs and that is what, in my opinion, tore apart the ibo clan and what caused Okonkwo to commit suicide
Delete3B: Assess the importance Ikemefuna in Okonkwo's life.
ReplyDeleteIkefuna was practically the son Okonkwo always craved for. For all the charecteristics of Nwoye that were so demoralizing in the mind of his father, Ikemefuna made up for. He was considered by Okonkwo, his true son; an enjoyable and hardworking young male. I view the young teen as an ignition to the heart of Okonkwo. The spark he needed to foresight a possible successor to his then superior legacy. His brutal murder was a total nightmare for Okonkwo. Seeing and taking part in the killing of a being in which he deeply had revere and respect towards. As a dying Ikemefuna mustered his last words " My father they have killed me!" Okonkwo's pride severely got the best in him; such a painful moment to remember. From that point on, not a day proceeds without the ill- fated memory of Okonkwo'a moral mistake. For Ikemefuna'a death will forever haunt the mighty warrior.
DeleteI agree with Ryan, ever since Ikemefuna came into Okonkwo's life, Okonkwo gave an image of what he wanted a son of his to be like. Okonkwo has shown how cold hearted he could be up until he builds a connection with Ikemefuna and shows some type of sensitivity. No only did ikemefuna's death affect okonkwo's life, but Okonkwo's oldest son Nwoye. Nwoye looses the majority of the respect he had towards his father and thus showing the importance of Ikemefuna.
DeleteBased on what you know, how would you explain Nwoye's actions toward the new religion?
ReplyDeleteNwoye was simply manipulated and heavily intrigued by the Christian religion.
DeleteAs a child, his values and beliefs are obviously minuscule in comparison to his father. When he converted to this new faith, the rift between him and Okonkwo grew by gargantuan numbers. For the elder generation viewed the actions of the youth to ge completely disrespectful and hurtful. " To abandon the gods of one's father and to then worship the White Man's god". The pain it must cause Okonkwo was apparent but it also refueled his fiery rage.
Nwoye is now a Christian, and his reasons for becoming one is all a personal decision. Now his life has taken a major shift, and is no longer a child of Okonkwo, but rather a son of God.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI'm my opinion I would have not converted. One reason is that since I've been taught to live a certain way my whole life, why would I want to change it? In Things Fall Apart, the clan is represented as a whole family. If you turned back on the clan's religion it would be as backstabbing your "family members". I would feel guilty and if I did make the decision I would have to have a strong reasonable reason for doing so.
Delete3B- Do you agree or disagree with Nwoye's decision to abandon his and more importantly, Okonkwo's culture and thus convert to the Christian faith to worship " The White Man's God"? If you were in the boy's position, what would be your decision?
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Nwoye's decision. I personally think that if you are raised within a religion that is actually practiced in your family, you should not convert to a new religion. I think that it is disrespectful to turn your back to not only the religion but those who raised you with those belief. To piggy back on what Luzma had said earlier I wouldn't be able to convert to a new religion. Not only because I was raised a certain way but because I truly believe in my religion. If for some reason I were to convert to a new religion I would not be able to face my family, they would be disappointed, sad and mad at me.
DeleteI disagree with Emily, if there is a reason why Nwoye changed his religion, it was because he obviously didn't understand and believe in the same ideas as his tribe. When the missionaries came and offered a new way of life, Nwoye took it as an opportunity to understand "the poetry of the new religion." Furthermore, the actions that the tribe commits to make for certain causes are unexplainable for Nwoye as he was growing up. Achebe describes such questioning thought as a "persistent question that haunted his young soul" which was the question of the crying twins and the reasons for Ikemefuna's death. I think that the connection that Nwoye and Ikemefuna shared was a strong bond that couldn't have been taken away just because of the others death. Nwoye never fully understood why the tribe decided to take away the closest thing that he had to a brother which led him to question his beliefs. As Emily said, if one would actually follow and believe in their own religion, then there shouldn't be a slight thought about changing to the Christian faith. However, Nwoye felt the complete opposite. It was the Christian faith that made Nwoye feel relieved "as the hymn poured in to his parched soul."
DeleteTo piggy back on what Joyceline, my best friend, said
DeleteNwoye had the option just like any other person to convert his religion. I would agree with nwoyes decision of changing his religion because he didn't really understand it in the first place. Just like nwoye, time, education, and my surroudings have made me aware of all the other religions out there. On the contrary, I also agree with Emily, changing a religion when your family has tooken the time to keep it as a custom in their culture could be a great disgrace in that family.
I disagree with Emily. I think if a person is fascinated by a new religion to the point where the idea of going against their family’s beliefs crosses their mind, then they should go for it. Most people want to please their parents, but I think they should put themselves first when it comes to life decisions. Nwoye was fascinated by the new religion and he chose to convert because that is what made him happy.
DeleteI agree with Alexis because Nwoye was a grown man at the time he decided to convert to Christianity and he was able to make his own decisions. Okonkwo had taught him a very forceful and morally wrong way to live. Therefore, I can see why Nwoye decide to convert and also Christianity answered many of his unanswered questions that his previous religion didn’t. The Ibo religion had not answered his questions about after life and another reason why Nwoye might have converted could be that he wanted to prove to his dad, Okonkwo that he did not approve of the way he raised him. Since Nwoye is a member of the new generation he could change the world and influence the younger people to convert. Maybe even pressure them into choosing their own paths to disobey his ancestors and former family. Nwoye will either be a good influence on the newer generations or a bad one. We will never know.
Delete2b. what age group or gender was Achebe's novel intended for?
ReplyDelete3b. why are the words in the ibo language not translated throughout the book?
I think Achebe was aiming for teens and older people since the novel mentions topics that are intended to make our consciousness think about our everyday decisions.
DeleteThe Ibo words are not translated because he wants us to connect ourselves to the book by knowing what they meant. To make us interact with language of the Ibo.
I think Achebe was aiming for teens and older people since the novel mentions topics that are intended to make our consciousness think about our everyday decisions.
DeleteThe Ibo words are not translated because he wants us to connect ourselves to the book by knowing what they meant. To make us interact with language of the Ibo.
To piggyback on what Luzma had said, the intended message that the author,Chinua Achebe,wanted to accomplish in not translating the Ibo phrases was mainly so that the reader would be able to connect to the culture.Throughout the novel there are many phrases of Ibo language that could have been translated ,but this was done specifically so that the reader could see the beauty of the language ,and experience the story through the meaning of the words, and through the eyes of the Ibo people in the flesh.
DeleteBased on what you know, how would you explain Nwoye's actions toward the new religion?
ReplyDeleteNwyoe couldn't forgive his father Okonkwo for killing his step brother, Ikemefuma. His betrayal of his father by converting into Christianity can be seen as revenge for Ikemefuma's death. The hymn of the missionaries touched Ikemefuma's heart and rest his mind at ease. He is expose to a culture that doesn't kill children and leave them in a forest. This encourages him to convert.
DeleteI agree with Dung Nguyen about Christianity giving him comfort however I don't agree with the fact that he did it as revenge. I was once told that some people only fall under a religion that agree with what they want to do and will make them feel at ease with themselves. I think that Nwyoe choose to convert because he never seemed pleased with his religion through out the book. Once they came they were able to make him feel at ease knowing that what they did to Ikemefuma was wrong. He converted to feel safe.
Delete2b: What ideas can justify that Okonkwo's chi was the one that didn't let him get away from being a disgrace like his father?
ReplyDeleteWas okonkwo destined for tragedy since the beginning or did his own choices lead him to his destruction?
ReplyDeleteOkonkwo was destined to end in a tragedy. Even though he lead a good life and was respected by his clan, his rash nature would eventually end him. His emotions and fear of failure prompt him to be tough and hot headed which lead to him killing the messenger. His rash actions lead to his suicide and tragic end
DeleteI belive that Okonkwos own choices lead him to commit suicide.Okonkwo could have easily accepted the white men and there beliefs but instead he chose to start killing some of them and pushing them away.He chose to start trouble which eventually lead to his tragic suicide.
DeleteI agree with Adan about the fact that Okonkwo's own choices lead him to commit suicide. He could have kept fighting to stop the white men from taking advantage of the Ibo culture, but he didn’t. Although once he killed one of the white men and his people didn’t do anything about it, he knew that they were doomed and there was nothing he could do by himself. That is why he killed himself, he saw no point in living anymore since his own people turned back on him. Also he wouldn’t have wanted to live through the slavery and pain that he had once felt when he was locked up with his fellow friends, when he had no way to defend himself, he was left speechless.
DeleteDo you agree with the actions that Okonkwo has made throughout the book?
ReplyDeleteHow would you compare Okonkwo to a fish out of the water?
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHow does Okonkwo's nature foreshadow his death?
ReplyDeleteWith Okonkwo being a very proud, and traditional man it greatly affected Okonkwo's suicide. When the white missionaries came in and told the clan that their entire religion was fake, Okonkwo's world was set off balance. Then when he saw the missionary gaining more and more converts and getting more people to learn the white man's language and even working for them, he saw his entire clan fall apart. Then when he cut the head off the commissioner and saw the clan not react at all he finally gave up on them. This led to Okonkwo realizing that his rank, religion, culture, and personality were all useless. He then believed that his whole life was a complete lie and gives up on living and on his culture.
DeleteWhat choice would you have made? Would you have committed suicide? Or found another way to deal with Okonkwo's problem?
ReplyDeleteIf it was me, I would have done the same thing. The pain of seeing your clan, your brothers, your family slowly fading away from you would be too much. I wouldn't commit suicide because of the sadness and depression, but rather, I want to die with my clan. The one that raised me up to be the best. The clan isn't just a home, it is a part of me. I want to be with my clan till the very end. And the very end would be when my own blood turns against its self. As the clan slowly fade away, so will my deteriorated body.
DeleteI agree with Dung, eventhogh suicide was seen as a disgrace he still decided to do it because he knew he was going to be humiliated anyway. Furthermore, as Dung said, "i want to die with my clan," shows how he isnt humiliating himself, but embracing his clan and his fellow people!
DeleteI agree with Alejandro. If it were me I would have not committed suicide, I would’ve found another way to deal with the problems of my clan and I would’ve found a way to make peace with the white people. By committing suicide, I think it made Okonkwo look weak. Instead of finding a way to solve the clan’s problems he killed himself, to me that shows that Okonkwo let the white people win and they drove him to suicide.
DeleteI agree with Alexis, I would of think it through first, and find a way to help my people. I understand that Okonkwo did not want to be humiliated in front of all of his clan, but it would of had been better if he stand with them till they actually decide to kill him. Okonkwo showed a lot of sign of weakness when he decided to make that decision. Okonkwo had the other opposition to just try to help the most possible,but he choice wrong. As Alexis said, "Okonkwo let the white people win," shows that Okonkwo did not really try to look for another opposition and just leading to suicide.
DeleteIf it were me in Okonkwos situation i would have found a more peaceful and civil way to deal with the white people. I would not have commited suicide because i would not wanna be remembered as the one who disgraced his village by killing himself. I would have atleast tried to talk things out with the white men and end things peacefully
DeleteDo you think the Ibo people having personal chis has advantages and/or disadvantages? (3b)
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteDo you believe there is an importance for Okonkwo's favorite child being a girl (Enzinma)?
ReplyDeleteI believe there is some importance for Okonkwo's favorite child, Ezinma, being a girl. Ezinma was a great example of the child Okonkwo has wished for. She was hard-working and mature, and did her best to please not only Okonkwo, but her family. Her efforts to accomplish this were seen by Okonkwo, and his actions reflected the thought that Ezinma was his favorite child. He was slightly more patient and caring with her. For example, when Ekwefi notified Okonkwo that Ezinma was ill, he shot up and hurried to where Ezinma was. Even though he doesn't show it openly, he cares for the child. Concerning her gender, it is not very important to Okonkwo, but rather her example.
DeleteI agree with Brenda because Okonkwo showed a different emotion towards Ezinma, even though she was a girl. He may not have shown his womanly emotions outside, but his actions showed otherwise. Another example would be when Ezinma was taken away and Ekwefi followed her just in case something went wrong. He later showed up to make sure that Ekwefi and Ezinma were okay and safe. He cares about Ezinma more than his other male children although it is considered wrong in his culture. He wishes that Ezinma were a boy because her discipline and readiness would be very helpful if she were. She is very obedient to Okonkwo's demands and is very comforting towards him.
DeleteWhat inference can you make about what will happen to Okonkwo's family after his death? 2b
ReplyDeleteWhat is your opinion about Mr. Brown? Was he really a good person or did he have alternative motives? 3b
Okonkwo's family will have to face very difficult times with the death of Okonkwo. Okonkwo was the head of the family and performed all the hard work on the farm. Without their father, one of Okonkwo's sons will have to take his place and work to support the family. His family will also have to face the shame of Okonkwo killing himself. In the Ibo’s culture it is and abomination for a man to kill himself and a great offense to against the Earth. Especially for a man like Okonkwo, a man with many titles, a great warrior and famous wrestler known through the nine villages, it would be a very shameful death.
DeleteI believe that Mr. Brown was a good person because he did not force the people of the tribes to convert to Christianity. He only asked for a place to practice his religion and tried to convince the people to convert by teaching them about his religion rather than by forcing them. Despite their differences, Mr. Brown was respectful to the clan and even spent time trying to understand and learn more about the tribes’ culture and religion. His motive was simply to spread God’s words and his beliefs in a peaceful way and throughout time gained the clan’s respect.
I believe that after Okonkwos death, his family will not have respect of the rest of the village because since he commited suicide and suicide is a form of disgrace the village would feel as if his family disgraced there culture aswell.
DeleteWould it had been better for the clan if they had listened to Okonkwo and fought against the Christians?
ReplyDeleteIf the clan had listened to Okonkwo rather than the invasive Christians, then they would be more likely protect their unique customs. Okonkwo was resisting change and wished to fight very strongly, but the clan, thinking the Christians would cause no harm, left them alone. Since the elders and the Oracle were the ones that made decisions, Okonkwo could not directly order the clan to fight. As a result, the native customs the clan had were exposed to the beliefs the Christians brought. This caused the conversion of several villagers, especially the ones considered "useless" (efulefu) by the clan. Okonkwo was ready to fight back, but the important clansmen thought that the Christian faith was getting rid of the efulefu, so they let the religion stay. However, the Christians were building a government and had plenty of followers, so they gained power to rival the clan. This eventually became a threat to the clan itself. I believe that had the clan resisted, they would have had a better chance to be left alone by the Christians.
DeleteI agree with Brenda, because the clan would have listen to Okoknwo they would have not done the right decision. Okonkwo did not really had the authority to tell the clan to stand next to him to defend their rights. Okonkwo could have done that, but things would of had been worse. The clan did the right not to listen to Okonkwo because then everyone will have lost everything, and the clan would have lost everything. The fact that the Christians had a lot of right when they got there, so there really was not an opposition for the clan.
ReplyDelete